Board Thread:Hosting Game/@comment-30895062-20171117223743/@comment-31680260-20171125020709

SpacedefenderX wrote: Also, remember this article I saved online a few weeks ago

God kills 2.4 million people in his book. Satan kills 10. Who is the more evil one? '''Does it say WHO God killed? If someone breaks into your house and you kill them, which of you is the evil one? Answer me that.'''

God says everyone has to worship him for all eternity. '''And yet He doesn't FORCE us to. If He did, this post wouldn't exist.''' What kind of self-centered egomaniac demands that? '''One who deserves it. He created us, and we still sinned against Him. You say it's self-centered. Actually, it's just what's right.''' What happened to the three-day-old babies when the flood of Noah came? Don’t envision a worldwide flood—hold in your mind the image of a single crib with a single baby, slowly drowned by the cold, dark waters. What could that child have possibly done? '''That child would then be in the presence of God, and God is everything good. Think of everything good that's ever happened to you in your life - then multiply that by a number larger than infinity. That's less than a single electron's worth of how good it is to be in God's presence. Furthermore, humanity was so deranged that only Noah's family was good. Imagine your local school bully. Then imagine EVERYONE was like that, only ten times worse. And THEN imagine going to the teacher about it, and the TEACHER starts bullying you. That baby would have grown up in the ways of its parents, crooked and evil. If you could travel back in time to kill Hitler as a baby, preventing the deaths of millions of Jews and preventing the second world war, wouldn't you do the same?'''

Do you think slavery is okay? The bible supports it. It says you can have slaves as long as you don’t gouge out their eyes or break their teeth. Yeah, that makes it moral. '''It says to treat your slaves nicely. And as I explained above, God has used slaves to bring about something that helped countless people.'''

The bible says that you are to kill those who attempt to lead you away from God. I fully admit that right now, I am trying to undermine your faith and turn you into an atheist. Kill me. Do it. I won’t even defend myself. Why aren’t you? No, I will not respect your beliefs—wars fought for good causes, genocide of people who were worshipping idols and false deities, following inhumane practices, gay bashing '''Not even 50 years ago, humans in GENERAL based gay people. Don't try and pin that on Christianity when it was literally a global death sentence to be homosexual., honor killing of people who were crooked, see above, genital mutilation Circumcision? As Lazuli said, it helped prevent disease, suppression of science Since when? As far as I can tell, God HELPED humanity with science., forced parenting I assume you also mean arranged marriages, and once again, that's something far more widespread than Christianity. Stop calling Christians out for something your ancestors did themselves., and other real-world harm results from your beliefs Name some. And then watch as they're picked apart.'''. That is to be fiercely challenged, not respected. You have challenged it, and your challenge was proven unfounded.

God made us in his image? What is more likely: that, or that we made him in our image? The God of the Bible is self-admittedly petty, jealous, and vengeful—just like we are. '''Aye, the Bible does say God was jealous. However, "jealous" has been corrupted. In Biblical times, to be jealous was to be angry that someone else had something that SHOULD BELONG TO YOU. And tell me where He was petty or vengeful. Give actual examples when you make claims like that.''' Is it not more probable that we made him in our image? Original sin? You mean holding people guilty for things over which they have no control. How is that remotely just? '''Once again, you give no examples. Furthermore, THE LAW DOES THAT TODAY. "Ignorance is no defense" - even if you didn't know it was illegal, you would still be held accountable. So once again, you blame Christianity for something the very LAWS YOU FOLLOW participate in.'''

What did Satan do? He stood up for himself. He said he wasn’t going to give in to God’s demand to be worshiped. How is that a crime? '''Actually, Lucifer was arrogant. He thought he could rule Heaven better than GOD - that's something we call "God-complex", and it's considered a psychological disorder.'''

What happens to the billions of people who never even hear of your path to salvation? How is sending them to hell for all eternity merciful or just when they have no choice in the matter? '''At the end of time, we will all kneel before the LORD and our tongues will confess that He is LORD. We will have SOLID proof He exists - anyone who refuses to then worship Him is responsible for their own actions.'''

Moses tells his soldiers to rape the virgin daughters of their enemy. Do you support this? '''Actually, Moses said "Save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." He never said ANYTHING about rape. Furthermore, these soldiers would have KNOWN that rape was a sin, so why would they have raped these women?'''

Jesus said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Why are so many Christians so damn judgmental then? '''Because we're human. You can't expect us to be perfect just because we follow someone perfect. ''' Muslims believe theirs is the one true god too. And that they will go to heaven. And that anyone of another religion will go to hell. These are all things you believe too. How are you any different from them? '''Because we have proof of God's existence - hell, many atheist scientists have set out to disprove God AND BECOME CHRISTIAN THEMSELVES. If Christianity wasn't true, how the hell would this happen?'''

How do you know the bible is true? Name one thing that it says that could not have been written by uneducated desert tribesmen 2,000 years ago. The cures for polio and smallpox, for example, can be written in just a few pages. Why doesn’t the bible contain anything like that? The entire book of Proverbs provides guidelines on how to live properly - I don't know about you, but I'd much rather be straight and true but diseased than be healthy and evil.

Which is more likely, that Mary conceived as a virgin, or that Joseph knocked her up. Billions of people have gotten pregnant the old fashioned way—which is more likely here? '''That's just straight up disrespectful - the fact that Jesus was born of a virgin is only more proof of God's existence. He overruled simple biology to have His Son born into human flesh. If He didn't CREATE that biology, how would He know how to bypass it?'''

Why aren’t believing soldiers fearless? If they believe God will protect them, they have nothing to fear. If they die, it must be God’s will. And if they die, they will instantly go to paradise forever. There is no reason, if they truly believe, to have any fear. '''That's more a human flaw than anything else. Fear is a natural emotion, and it wouldn't exist without a purpose. I, personally, do NOT fear death. In fact, I can't wait for the day I die. But I will die on GOD'S terms, not my own.'''

Genesis gives two factually different accounts of creation. The Four Gospels give two factually different accounts of Jesus’ life. How can these conflicts in basic facts both be literal truth? '''If you're going to make this kind of claim, actually provide examples of these conflicts. Otherwise you're just spouting nonsense.'''

You hold roughly the same religious beliefs as your parents and your country. So does 99% of everyone else in every other religion. What’s more likely, that yours is the one true religion, or that we all just get brainwashed into our parents belief system? '''My own FATHER only became a Christian after I was born, and both his parents are still at the least agnostic. He's living proof that it's not just being brainwashed. Furthermore, I MYSELF see proof that God exists. Things you call "coincidences" don't exist - they're simple proof that there is some form of divine intervention happening.'''

Some Christians argue that the New Testament made the Old Testament obsolete. Does this mean you’re willing to abandon the whole creationism farce and acknowledge that evolution is fact? '''Where in the New Testament does it say that Creationism is a farce? Now you're just making statements you WANT to hear, as opposed to fact.'''

If your spouse told you that you had to prove your love toward him/her by killing one of your children, you’d think your spouse had gone insane. Yet this is what God told Abraham to do—and you don’t think that’s equally twisted? '''God also STOPPED Abraham from actually killing his son. Funny you didn't include that - way to misrepresent the facts, mate.'''

Why do believers not regrow limbs? Surely some of our heroes coming home from war with missing body parts are true believers, from believing families, from pious communities. '''This point is invalid - why do NON-believers not regrow limbs? This whole section here is an abstract, unfounded claim based on... what, exactly?'''

Why cannot a single amputee with such a strong belief regrow a limb, or have some other miracle that would in no way be explainable by science? '''A variety of reasons. God doesn't play favourites, so why should ONLY Christians be able to bypass biology? And being stripped of a limb can allow that amputee to have empathy for other people with the same condition - tell me, is empathy a bad thing? Is SYMPATHY a bad thing?'''

Babies are not a miracle from God. All animals make babies, some of them much cuter than our own, and any 15 year old human can participate in the process. '''Have you ever asked yourself where these reproductive systems COME from? A big bang might explode, sure, but I've never seen any evidence that it would be able to create life so diverse, so COMPLEX, without God being behind the scenes.'''

What would it take to convince you to become a Hindu? A Muslim? A Jew? A Sikh? These religions are thoroughly unconvincing, aren’t they? I simply feel the same about your religion. How are your talking snake, pregnant virgin, blood sacrifice ritual (communion), or zombie claims (Jesus’ resurrection) any different? '''One must have faith. If we had undeniable proof of EVERY LITTLE THING that happened, it wouldn't be faith - it would just be simple knowledge!'''

If God is love, and Jesus taught peace, why are so many Christians warmongering gun nuts? '''Because, as stated before, WE ARE HUMAN. WE ARE NOT PERFECT.'''

Why do communities, states, and nations with higher rates of religious belief also have worse indicators of quality of life and societal good? For example, the Deep South of the US is known to be very religious. Why does it have higher rates of crime, domestic violence, infant mortality, and other such social indicators? Same for, say, pious Central America versus Western Europe. '''For the last time, humans aren't hecking perfect. And did you actually research into what religions there ARE? I'd say it's most likely that these conflicts came about due to two SEPARATE religions fighting - so yet again, you're trying to blame everything on Christians.'''

If religion is necessary for morality, then why do organizations like the National Academy of Sciences, whose members are over 95% atheist, have so few members committing crimes? '''Where was it said that religion is necessary for morality? Proverbs, to use an example, provides GUIDELINES. If humans don't follow it, that's their fault.'''

The bible says that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man. The very next verse says that the penalty for doing so is death. Do you advocate the death penalty for homosexuality? '''Every country 50 years ago certainly did - so AGAIN, you blame Christianity for human flaws. How many times are you gonna do this?'''

Why aren’t Christian funerals big parties? If you truly believe you’re all going to heaven after you die, why is it not a massive celebration? Why are Christians not all taking up base jumping and volunteer fire fighting? '''Because we still miss the people who have gone. We'll never see them again until WE die, and that can feel like a very long time. Plus, have you ever BEEN to a Christian funeral? Every one I'VE been to WAS a party - it acknowledged the natural sadness of not being able to see someone for many years, but it ALSO acknowledged that THEY ARE WITH GOD. It IS a party!'''

Hitler was a Catholic, not an atheist. But I don’t blame Catholicism for what Hitler did, any more than I blame atheism for what Stalin and Mao did. Mad men can be mad for reasons other than religion. '''Exactly. You ADMIT that religion isn't directly responsible for mad men.'''

As an atheist, I’m just like you—I’m kind to others, I love my family, I continually try to be a better person. I just don’t need the threat of hell or promise of heaven to do it. '''Good for you! Hell is no more a threat than Heaven is - there is that promise that if you don't accept Jesus as your Saviour, you can't be in Heaven. This is because God CANNOT abide by sin, and even if you're a great person, you're not perfect. You HAVE sinned at least once in your life. Jesus, when He was crucified, took all the sins of humanity and died with them. It is that promise which allows humans INTO Heaven in the first place.'''

As an atheist, I too try to live by the Golden Rule, but I don’t need a god or an ancient text to see the wisdom of the rule. I do unto others as I’d have done to me because I know this is the right thing to do, and it makes me happy when I do. Once again, tell me an instance of where it was STATED that religion was NECESSARY for morality.

As an atheist, I am amazed at the wonder of nature and the universe on their own merits. I don’t need to believe there is some sky daddy at the bottom of it to reach this conclusion. '''That's the way you see things. Others see them differently. You want to talk about how Christianity "bashes other religions"? You're doing the exact same thing you condemn us for. That's what this post is all about, no?'''

As an atheist, I agree that it is not enough to just say what you’re against. That’s why I am also a Secular Humanist. Other atheists may hold different positive views, but we are more than just anti-religious. '''And yet this very POST is anti-religion. Fancy that!'''

As an atheist, I enjoy sex to its fullest. Particularly in my single years! As long as everyone consents, then I don’t have to worry about the opinion of a god or his threats to my eternal disposition. '''You must understand that sex was originally intended as two people becoming one, producing a child to continue the bloodline. That's why I personally have no problems with private sex, and no issue with sex existing. There is, however, a difference between sex and pornography. It's when sex is misused for simple carnal pleasure that it becomes a problem. The intimacy and love are removed from the equation. You'll try and misrepresent what I've just said as "atheists are misusing sex", which is NOT what I'm saying.'''

As an atheist, I don’t give up 10% of my income year over year, meaning I can retire 5 years earlier. '''Good for you. Not all Christians give up 10% of our income a year. You're trying to speak generally, when actually, Christians can and do behave differently from one another. Despite what you seem to want to think, we're not all mindless robots. We're human beings, just like you.'''

As an atheist, I deal with death by telling the people I love that I love them every chance I get. That way when they or I go, the one who survives can have the peace of knowing that we loved each other to the fullest. '''We do that too. Simple as that. Except Christianity provides the extra benefit of "This is goodbye, but not forever. We will see each other again."'''

Any references to God, Satan, or Jesus as anything other than a historical figure, are for the purpose of literary and philosophical analysis and critique only—it is not a statement of their supernatural existence any more than a movie critic referencing Darth Vader believes in The Force.

Christianity and the Bible are my focus since these were the elements of the religious indoctrination of my youth. I trust that those raised in other religions who are now freethinkers can make similar critiques of the religious elements of their upbringing. '''I have also tested Christianity, and I still do it today, even at the age of 14. I have found it to be true, no matter what I try and test it against. You want proof of that? Read every reply I've just written. If I didn't think God existed, why would I have devoted SO MUCH of my time into rebutting here?'''